Pitching for new work? You, your portfolio, and how it sells to your clients - with Jason Baron.

Transcript:

Emma Alexander:

Thank you so much for joining us for this session all about portfolios, brought to you by Wisern. Wisern is a business development platform specifically for creatives. We can help you with planning and strategy, pricing and usage, pitching and promotion as well as, of course, portfolio reviews. Helping you craft a portfolio that not only looks amazing, but does exactly what you want it to do, which is open doors and win commissions.

So that's what we're here for today. If you enjoy the session today please go over to spread the love, go to Instagram give us a follow - we love to connect with people and share the conversation about life in the creative lane.

Thank you for joining us for this session all about portfolios. My name is Emma Alexander, I'm the co-founder of Wisern and I'm joined today by the fabulous Jason Baron.

Jason Baron:

Hello, thank you, thank you. Well, thanks for inviting me here and it's lovely to see you, I can't see any of the others but I know that they're there. I'm sure they all look fantastic.

Emma Alexander:

Jason probably needs no introduction to most of you, after 20 years at the BBC including time as the Head of Photography and Creative Director of BBC Creative. I'll give you two minutes tops to talk about what that means - what does being the Head of Photography at the BBC mean, and what impact did you have during your time there?

Jason Baron:

Well, it's funny you say that because pretty much the 20 years that's what everyone around the BBC asked me as well. So heading up a team that it used to be called a kind of usually called Picture Publicity and it still is in different different aspects of the work but um, so if it's publicity, pitcher, campaign managers, creative producers, photography, they all kind of did the same thing, which was, you know, create the imagery to promote the content that the BBC were making. So my job for the last sort of six, seven years of that was going around the BBC, explaining to various major stakeholders in marketing applications and content. But there was this amazing in house creative team of incredibly skilled, wonderful people, most of whom have been there quite a long time making amazing images happen to promote shows. So I was going around the business telling the rest of the BBC this and at the same time, finding out what was being commissioned and what was being made so that I could make a little call and say, We should definitely get photography for that. We should we shouldn't be talking about making those sort of proactive decisions about what should take place and what we shouldn't basically, and then I would guide the team through that process and sign off those images, get them out there. And what everyone was telling about. Was that less than two minutes?

Emma Alexander:

The style must have changed. What kind of changes did you see over the 20 years?

Jason Baron:

When you hear about a show being made, let's say you hear about new drama, it's a six-part thriller series. So you go into this room, and you're going to have the kickoff meeting with marketing communications, and the production team would be there, telling you all about this thing and the producer or the exec producer, or someone at the BBC would turn to me and say: do you think we're gonna get a Radio Times cover? And that's pretty much the first 10 years of being at the BBC. That's what they always said. So that’s what they were always interested in: do we get ready to try for a cover for this? And I would say, I don't know, we'll have to see. So that lasted a long time. But then with the birth of iPlayer, which was what... probably about 10 years ago now? I saw the birth of Player and how important that became in terms of where imagery would first be seen for people's content. So they made this show and then, you know, you go on iPlayer and you click the button - you click on a lovely picture that's been made. So the last few years, instead of the producer saying ‘will I get a Radio Times cover,’ they will say ‘what's the key art going to look like? What's the image going to look like on iPlayer?’ So it was that real kind of move from print-focus over to completely, almost completely, digitally-focus. Not to say that print isn't still wished-for or needed, but that was the biggest change for me that I saw. So that obsession now - and especially with the rise of Netflix and other streaming platforms - shows on those platforms are products, and those products live and die by what they look like. And what they look like is those images that are commissioned are made. So if you don't get that right, your product looks rubbish, basically!

Emma Alexander:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The window shopping thing is huge.

Jason Baron:

It's literally lives or dies on it. So yeah, that's the focus these days.

Emma Alexander:

What was the real highlight for you at the BBC? What was a standout moment?

Jason Baron:

Yeah, well, I think I think I'd have to mention the the oneness project that happened in sort of 2017 2018 and through that time, which was the big one wanting to redo their idents, which is a little films that are shown in between the brick programme as well. And that's obviously one and there was a lot of filming and going back to the sort of 2012 to 2017 they were they sort of hippos swimming around, and it was a helicopter shot from above, and then they wanted to completely change it. And it was a kind of post Brexit, you know, divided nation type of thing. So everyone's talking about ideas. And I think it was Charlotte ma actually, like the major, sort of almost most of the big scene and looks after all the content she kind of loves photography. And she said, we can do sort of photographic II type thing. And so all these ideas are going around and it's like, well, can we get groups of people doing, you know, the same thing that they love, at least so we can unite those people at least if not, you know, in a, in a very polarised nation, at least we can get a few people who do the same thing and love it together doing something. So this brief came to BBC Creative and I remember saying well, what could who could who could be involved in this and I just laughed and said, well, Martin Parr shat shooter kind of thing. Never think ever even sort of go for it or know Him, that kind of stuff. And they said, Well, yeah, that could be interesting. Can you phoned him up? And I was like, Okay, so when you literally phoned him up and within an hour, he was on the phone back to me, I put the iPhone Magnum just said can I speak to the point about the project? That was it. That always sounds very strange, but actually the guy called Tim Patton who used to look after him who I've kept in touch with ever since exactly here and multiple tracks that I've talked to said looks gonna be the brilliant art project and you're interested Yes, love it right my street fantastic. upfront. That was amazing. The best thing about it was obviously it all happened there was there was the months of really didn't really weren't, you know, and nervousness about it because of various things to talk about another time, but in the end, it's all good, but we made him decided on each of the shoots at about 20 shoots at the end. To give back to photography. He's an incredibly generous fellow in terms of giving back to photography his foundation, but we agreed that he would mentor someone on set so my job was to go around wherever we were shooting all over the country and find a student of photography or and say, Would you like a day on set with Martin Parr? And it was just an offer. I know this is the best call I made like every time I did was like hi you've been recommend to me by your tutor and someone who might want to be six you do you know Martin Parr?. Do you want to work with him on it? And you know, I can pay you as well. What? And we did so it was it was quite hard to find really that people outside of London especially but we've had some amazing people. Actually the first person I used I've used several times since, many of them got recommissioned and one of them is literally my favourite portrait photographer at the moment. Yeah, can I say that? She's amazing thing and I've called her out loads of times on my on my socials but she's probably older than she takes really special pictures. Especially. I've never I've never seen children taken she's just so raw honestly of how she how she understands jewellery is amazing. And she did the shoot which was a kind of it was the wild swings. Hilarious. I think that has to be a highlight.

Emma Alexander:

As a commissioner, you must have seen I didn't know what to say how many portfolios during your time, hundreds of 1000s or hundreds of 1000s. What are you looking for, you know, when you meet with creatives, or you saw their bodies of work, what was it that you were looking for, as a commissioner?

Jason Baron:

Do you know what often often you're not necessarily looking but as we have added a lot of pitches and I'm sure you've done the same thing and you get sometimes, you know, that wetrasfer and link of 1000 images and you sort of don't know what's amazing till it hits you sometimes. So you'll be piling through a whole you know, I've been doing it recently for a BBC series, and you'll go through and it's suddenly something jumped out and it'll be man that's good. I get it really amazing. And sometimes that's what happens with portfolios you're kind of you're not calling in portfolios. Sometimes you're doing it just kind of off the cuff. Oh, yeah, okay. Okay, Agent bring me six of your people's books and we'll have coffee and pastel than that and we'll take it. We'll talk and offer you just like, oh, okay, this is surprisingly lovely, you know. That said, there's something about I always used to say about promotional photography. Which is basically what we were dealing with. Now, promotional photography isn't necessarily good photography. And that sounds a little bit weird, but there's often a compromise with promotional photography, not least because of things like it's safe to say it's a set of four hander, a new series for the big three or whoever for four stars in it, but actually, one of them isn't really that much. And, you know, but actually, they're probably the most famous one. So you have to put them in the shot, even though the force is never as good as three shot let's face it. And they're not really in it and it sort of miss sells the programme, but then you'll have the producer saying yeah, but they have to be in the shot that paid a fortune for them, because people are agents. So there's quite a lot of compromise with professional photography. And you have to, you have to think about that as well. That said, my love at the BBC, and the thing I drifted towards this very much was documentary photography. So I tended not to do many of the big dramas in the big entertainment shows. I looked after the more factual content and the documentaries and so there was less of a compromise that I had to make often because there weren't agents involved and there weren't, you know, there weren't stars kicking off, it was much more sort of, so I saw I did very much towards the end, especially towards more art photography. That could be promotional. Promotional photography. So when I was you know, obviously if I'm looking for a photographer to shoot mental health, or mental health documentary, then that's going to be a very different photographer to someone who needs me need new headshots or stripping condensing or Dr. Hill or something like that. Yeah, so it's a very broad spectrum of the type of photographers that we used to get in from the very arty ones. So you'll, you know, present probably, I've committed more than anyone else who's still just a God of documentary photography for me. And then you've got the you know, the shiny floor, the shiny floor guys who we used to call him do this at the electronical shows and, you know, lighting, their tech lighting ability is amazing. And they weren't talent in an amazing way and like,

Emma Alexander:

I guess it's like having a really massive range of of people in your black book, and no

Jason Baron:

absolute kind of commission so each person had a little favourites and then we would share all this one did a great job for me last week, but he wants to shoot documentary when you try him out. So there's quite a lot of cross pollination of that kind of stuff. That's interesting.

Emma Alexander:

So you getting him just getting into some like that. People actually share that information between us it's not getting us to target everybody within that sector. It's like that that business.

Jason Baron:

That's good, right? Yeah. I was gonna say it's a very it's a very giving, sharing environment and a network of people. We used to share photographers with Channel Four and Paramount as is now BBC, it's a very, it's a nice little community we share.

Emma Alexander:

So going back to portfolios, someone's coming to you. They've managed to get this holy grail of a meeting with you as the Commissioner, the head of photography, who you know, whoever is in that in that team. You know what's gonna make the book really stand out for you? What makes a really solid body of work?

Jason Baron:

Okay. Well, I mean, we talked before about the kind of, like five top tips and things obviously, and everyone says, Start and Finish with a killer shot, right? It's it's like, it's pretty obvious, but that sort of goes along with the fact that your book should ideally be sort of like a story. So it's got a beginning, middle and end. I sort of like equating it, and this is probably showing my age, because this is pre streaming music, but an album right so when you people used to craft an album and then it's going back a bit now and everyone's like, into vinyl or things like that. So your songs, your 10 songs or however around 10 songs have to make sense as a body as well. And so I feel a portfolio is a little bit like that. It's a little bit like an LP where you kick it off with a nice, enter and then you can have a little quiet moment and then you bring it up a bit and then do domain and then there's a kind of weird one again. So I kind of liked that analogy of, of curating curating your book a little bit like an album. I've got a friend of mine who used to run his big music. He always said the default song and everyone pulled his favourite albums is his favourite song had to go back and forth on an album is it the best song

Emma Alexander:

for unite this idea of having like, a book has been like a journey you know, you have your your portfolio with that's printed or whatever it is, whatever body of work is, constituting this portfolio. You were saying should should always read like a story, you know, just have this like real narrative running through I think that's really subjective, though. How do you get flow? I mean, obviously, having this corker at the beginning and this banger at the end, how do you get kind of achieve flow through a book?

Jason Baron:

You know, what I think I do not I think helps a lot is and I've talked about this in other blogs and webinars and podcasts is that a lot of a lot of photography, and I see this when I'm trying to judge things as well. I've just been awards. And most of the photos that come through are desperately serious, right? They're really and that you know that photography should be serious and shouldn't be worthy. But when, when a photo comes into those competitions, or you see in a property that's kind of funny, or it's kind of quirky, or you're old or something, I think this is really useful to do and folios just to kind of trip up, even if there isn't, even if there isn't a sort of story to break it up with some pictures that have a bit of levity to it, I think is a really nice way of going through your book, and it just it just kind of trips up the person who's looking at it. That's good. That kind of thing. So, levity I talk about a lot and I think is important in portfolios. I've talked about this with with tutors of photography as well. I think they set I think it starts when people are learning photography, the topics they get set, a desperately serious you know, everyone goes out shoot serious things about serious matters, and actually, maybe be a bit more Shakespearean a bit more Chekhov a bit more check off light chain, you know, the most devastating photography photos often the funniest as well. And that goes through literature and art and cinema and everything. So I think that's, you know, just have that definitely,

Emma Alexander:

that's really interesting. Yeah, I think you're right, that we can really get sucked into this vortex of being really kind of really, really serious and powerful. You know, and actually, sometimes, sometimes power comes through comedy or not just the comedy but through lightheartedness as well. That's really cool. What are your what your pet hates when it comes to being no-no's?

Jason Baron:

I hate to say this, but this is going back a while show my agent as well. Almost everyone who tend to see with a book had a photo of Paul Smith in there. It was just became really fun. He's not designing clothes. He's literally just having swag taken by people. I don't think so we have things like this positive in the portfolio. That's a no no, really. Well, it's not that harsh. But now there's a new one. There's a new Paul Smith. Oh, I've seen especially for Northern photographers, Maxine Peake. Actress, very talented actress. She's in so many portfolios I've seen it's really funny.

Emma Alexander:

Everyone's making a mental note…

Jason Baron:

I'm being a little bit flippant there. But obviously I think I think what sorts of things maybe do you research about other people's works? I mean, join lockdown. How many lockdown projects were there? It was literally I mean, come on. I know this. I know that you can't do anything else. There's no work. There's no jobs, but you've got to come up with something different than someone's doing it lockdown project and the first person who did it I feel really sorry for him because it was great. You know, there were some really nice ones but it just became saturated. So when you are thinking about what to put in your portfolio, just have to think about well do I need to put that in? They've probably seen a similar picture before by a perfectly good photographer. Do I need it in my portfolio? It's just having a bit of a think about that. So yeah, I was quite vocal about amateur boxers in portfolio. How many? How many personal projects of amateur boxers? Ye, here's my local gym. Everyone must have a local gym who's a photographer because they've taken a picture of an amateur boxer. So, my pet hates at the moment are amateur boxer and wild swimming. Everyone is shooting wild swimmers.

I know who was amazing, and a copy of one of those awards. That was right on the bid. So it just everyone just leave wild swimming alone for a bit.

Emma Alexander:

maybe that comes to your point before about shaking up the flow and putting in something surprising it's actually put something in that's gonna be not what you think is going to sit within this realm.

Jason Baron:

We talked about Polly Alderton before. When she came to the BBC, she arrived a little a4 kind of brochure. It was kind of a really cheaply put together portfolio. And she sort of posted on my my other portfolios and someone else but these are these are just pictures of my children. Right? So we're all just don't Can you imagine? You're pretty boring. Anyway, so she gets out the bag and we sit there and within a minute. I think two of us would sort of crying when someone else just like had to get up and leave the table if they want so moving these pictures so raw and honestly beautiful. So and that was the surprising thing. It wasn't, you know, it was it was just the nature of the pictures of the subject. It was the nature of how she shot her children was just remarkable. So, you know, it's hard to do and this wasn't the beautiful leather bound thing. We could talk about that which I think a great format to record but that was one that was so surprising that it worked.

Emma Alexander:

That's great. So yeah, in a way actually the power of work will stand out regardless of how you present it. That's kind of the key, right?

Jason Baron:

Yeah, if it's that good.

Emma Alexander:

So you talked about post work, boxing? Yeah. Should you include personal What do you want to see personal work in books?

Jason Baron:

I absolutely do. And I think it is more pertinent than ever, actually. But especially in I think especially the surprising thing is in the ad world. I think people really want to understand they want to commission someone who's got got some gravitas as a person behind them. And I think this goes there's something about you know, the world feeling desperately guilty about what it does. Right everybody in the world at the moment they want to, you know, they want to employ someone who's got something that's worthwhile. You can do that by by showing work that you're deeply passionate about. A recent example, I know a photographer who went to big ad agency took all his work, and they actually didn't look at his book any of his books at all. In the two hour two and a half hour meeting. They said we know we know good photographer, but what are you what are you into at the moment what's your passion? What are you working on? What what ideas have you got for some personal projects, and that's all they're interested in, which I think is really compelling. And so I you know, when I've done when I've done mentoring sessions, it's go away and think about some personal projects you want to do that aren't amateur boxers while swimming. But you're not. I mean, it's certainly you can talk about something really passionately. You may have got a brilliant commission and you've shot up we've been dairy milk and it looks beautiful, whatever. And that's not only a great couple, that's great. What's this this is cool. What is this being paid for? And then they come to you come alive, but you're talking passionately about something.

Emma Alexander:

I agree entirely, having been a commissioner in evil advertising as well. I thought we would talk more about personal work because, you know, it's it's lovely to have a BA and it's usually you are so much more embedded in that in that project. And even if I don't love it, I don't have to love your personal work. It shows me a bit of what you're about. And I think that that's really interesting. Like

I have a really young guy came to me about six months ago. Lovely, lovely fella, and he shoots music gigs. Very nice, nice job. That said within a pit in the right, you know, even I've taken quite nice music shots at gigs, you know, and I'm not talking about but it sounds like looking at Yeah, can we can do and then the next day. I did take this. I did this little project recently and it was so beautiful and so lovely. And suddenly I don't know, come on and let's keep talking and I also mentor him a bit help him out here and there but only based off that personal project that you sent him just just like dark shadows of us not because just like the weirdest thing. Yeah. So I think those projects

Yeah, I suppose about Yes, Tasha. Yes or no?

depends who you're depends. It depends who you're showing the book to and you know, and I think it's like when you're applying for jobs, they say we should take your CV and it's a pain in the ass. But you know, I I told quite a few people who want to get into the TV world that tear sheets are actually really good. Because often there's often there's writing on this picture on the photos, right? So if you think about Netflix, and Amazon iPlayer these days as well, there's always a logo on the pictures. Yeah, it helps people see photography in the medium. It's going to be looked at most, which is online these days. Yeah, make a shortcut for them in a way. Exactly. It's the people are so much more fluid. There's a fluency now to imagery in terms of seeing words on them, not a word on pictures that they never used to be before. Sometimes I saw I saw a picture yesterday, and someone came over two days ago. And this showed me this photo and it was quite good. And then he showed me with the with the logo, and it just came like it really did. And I wouldn't have said that 10 years ago. I think it was beautiful photography, but actually, you can craft things that are beautiful. Do

you put them in your book as part of the story or would you have them as the end as like, here's my work and this is it in context. How would you

feel I've seen it both ways. So I've seen I've seen people do so they will show the the photo they took the retouched photo, the photo with the logo and the tissue and that comes as one little section in their book, which is kind of nice in a way to explain that journey of how you do it. Or just wondering at the end, you know, and maybe a bit of both so if you want a particular there's a particular interest in your portfolio in that in that project. And you can talk if you can talk about projects in a passionate, interesting way, about the journey of that thing and stick it all together. I don't know it's a problem. If if it's not part of your portfolio journey, but everything at the end. His idea is I got permission for it. Here's how I look.

Right. Here's a really fantastic, how many pictures, how many images, would you put in a solid portfolio?

Oh, absolutely. I really don't think there is an answer. And I know that's not very helpful. But you basically, I'd rather have 10 amazing shots that someone talks through in an interesting way that shows me about them their artistic sensibility and how they work than just looking at another one is another 1440 amazing images I'd rather have. I think it's about that. I think it's about being able to express yourself with all through all the pictures that you've got in your portfolio. And that might be that might be just a few pages of just some beautiful shots that no one wants to talk about. And they just drift along in that middle of the album. And it's just like I'm in I'm in there now. And then there's there's a few that you can talk about in terms of something happened on that shoot, which you can talk about, and I think that's really important having a portfolio and stuff where there's a shot of say it's Nicky Campbell for one of a better person which I have a story about. So you can talk about struggling. Well, something funny happened on the shoot that ended so you can talk about shooting in an interesting way. Yeah,

in terms of presentation, we talked very briefly earlier, but print or digital like, is it okay these days to go to a meeting with onto just an iPad what your feelings

I have seen. I had a company two days ago just with an iPad, and I said to him, this is great. Have you ever had a physical book because I do love them sometimes. But why my preferred thing? And this made a subjective I'm sure it works. I just think it shows the love of your work. In a kind of visceral way. But I also like it when someone show me that isn't theirs get an iPad out table and this is some other stuff. And I you know here's some of the stuff that I'm working on and it's so it's less but then you lose that formality of the book and you can talk a bit more quickly about this and and also most people see pictures on certainly in the in the TV stills world most people see these see pictures on screens. Yeah to show how it's gonna look on the screen with that light and you know, I like to see that as well as, as well as the principles

from education point of view. We are also used to digesting work in this way that it's not it's not quite as jarring as it was 1015 years ago we came up with some sort of topics and but you know, that I get that questions around is a bookstore relevant, you know, it's a big investment financially. Is it still relevant but yeah,

I think for me, I do like the book I do. But it can be can be quite scary things to put together and the printing of them. It's almost like I think a book is like your, your abandoned, you've got your single out. And no one knows that single having a book is like going into a room with your acoustic guitar and singing the song. As you wrote it accompanies that kind of ruins game because you know, you've printed your particular stock, right and all that good stuff. So but if you work in it's nice to see Yeah,

I agree. I think ultimately it comes down to preference and and how much we're willing to invest in it. I think I've had with the different different folders or different PDFs of other work is a really really smart way to go. And how did you and do you still find new outfits? So if you were commissioning work for BBC did you just wait for it? To be or were you are actively hunting photographers, mostly now? You're still doing freelance casting. How are you finding people? Yeah.

Well, it's sort of now in the last few years when it started judging so. So back in 2019, I judge the Sony Sony world photos and I was studying the student but actually, so obviously, I'm getting tonnes of work from people I never heard of before. So it's like oh my god, that's great. Yes. And so finding out that way is great. And then it's just being alive and open to things. Our world is mainly portraiture. So obviously when the Taylor Wessing portrait poses out we all do it we all take the team out in and join the nerds down.

Beautiful work and tell us to be like on Yeah, it's up to them. We just got to do lots of talk. And I've reached out before Yeah, definitely.

I'm trying to think I know that Sophie green got a commission that would be two to three Commission's because we saw her at Taylor Wessing there's a photographer that I used to see. I haven't seen her work for a while but every time I went to gallery and chose my favourite picture, it was always by Leticia Michael. Do you put me on to the sister? Yes. Beautiful work. Remarkably for someone who isn't Scottish takes brilliant pictures of Scotland. So it's just been it's just been open and alive to it. You know, our job is few of us at the BBC would really like to get more art photographers into our world so that we weren't so that we were pushing the artistic merit of what we were doing rather than just getting an onset photographer to shoot something we tried to kind of make it bit interesting.

Like getting email, newsletters, but also it's a deluge of beautiful work every day. How do you feel about the

Jason Baron:

deluge? But we did our best to at least look at every everyone who sent an email in the way it used to work is that they will email the BBC picture desk and say, Oh, I'm a photographer, can I work for you? The pitch this person will then put it on the team saying here's, here's someone's work, just in case it's of interest. And

Emma Alexander:

yeah, somebody with LinkedIn people going on and saying, Actually, that man that lady. I'm going to do every configuration for BBC address with their name and work it out.

Jason Baron:

I would do that. We did talk about how I never mind I quite liked working, working so long. And editing happens where the enormous amount of pictures very quickly. It doesn't take me it takes me 10 seconds to know if I want to follow up with that photographer. I don't and that's hard to hard to hear lots of you out there. On this has been saying that it can be quite brutal. But

Emma Alexander:

you know, what's there was a trigger for you. How do you know what what resonates with you?

Again, it's subjective, isn't it? I mean, I would I would say, Oh my God. This has been to work on someone else to be like, No, you know, it's someone in the team would say I'd like to and I'd be like no every touch or something. So it is subjective. But don't be disheartened. I think people are out there. They really do want to find people. It's, it's like when you're an actor and it was nervous going into an audition. The people who were auditioning, they want you to be good. They don't want you to be shared. It's not a test. You know, they're desperate to find the likes of being desperate to find the perfect photographer for the project or a future project. So it's not that it's not a test of photography, it should be it's an opportunity to show off something authentic.

I think that's something I've spoken about before. What I think is really important to remember is you have something of value, or you as I've talked about, use it as well. You're not a photographer, I just talked about a million years ago. It's not my day. Now. I don't consider myself to be a photographer. Therefore, you have something incredibly valuable that I literally need, you know, to keep my players happy. So you know, people feel like you're having you know, a bit guilty about pushing out promoting themselves and kind of saying, Hey, here's my work, like I'm not being a nuisance. So I know you're providing an incredibly valuable service and we literally need you and also frankly, you know, new as well if you're new up and coming photographer, that's so exciting for me to see new work to the table, they blow the socks off like when that happens. You just feel so connected. It doesn't make me happen. It feels good. So it can be really hard you're not getting that lovely stroke your feedback. But I think that points to say what we're looking at everything he knows coming we're looking at them not gonna differently. Thank you so much for your emails. We'd love to see your work. I particularly haven't got time for that when you're running.

Jason Baron:

So we often what we would say is we will show show your work to the team. If there's anything that they're working on that would fit for your work, they'll be in touch and sometimes it can be it can be months or years it could be like next day something happens the commission comes in and you're like I suspected yesterday bring for this, you know, so it can happen. It has happened quite quickly. But it's happened where I've seen some amazing work. I'm desperate to work with that photographer but nothing is coming in. That's right. Or, you know, for months and months months.

Emma Alexander:

It's been a production company I met when I worked in advertising. It took me eight years to find the right project to work with him. And when he finally called up and said I'm gonna put you the mix of this. We've been in a year we made a stunning film for a beautiful car company but that's how long that that relationship took to nurture you know for them to go on still here and we're not here yet. I mean, that's that's extreme, but you know, it takes time sometimes

Jason Baron:

It does. And the other thing too, that people should know about is that in the in the TV commissioning world a lot has changed in the last few years in that production companies obviously good news is they're really into photography because of Netflix and streaming platforms have invested a lot of money into photography now which is great Flipside for the likes of the commissioners and the in house commissioners at the BBC and all these places is the production companies have quite a lot of power they want to they want to use so even if I say we've got to use great bonus them for this and we have to be perfect for the absolute perfect. It's the production companies got amazing photographer and wants to use it. You can't have you can't do it. Your hands are tight. It's really quite hard sometimes. And it's a lot of compromise again, that the people who are who are trying to champion your work, have to there's quite a lot compromises and sometimes it's just not possible to get to pilot.

Emma Alexander:

I can imagine a big institution like Netflix or

Jason Baron:

money, they put in all the money and then kind of wander in it but yeah, completely

Emma Alexander:

and quickly, how often did you meet photographers, then and now? And now how often are we doing it taking meetings.

Jason Baron:

Sometimes months will go by without any meetings. We set something up. I wanted to call. Oh can't remember. It was coming but we had a monthly thing where we would have three photographers come in, in an hour every month and show their work. And it was lovely. We tried to keep it up but then stuff goes by then a couple of us can't do it. But quite quite regularly obviously now I've seen I've seen loads because I just kind of I'm doing a bit of career development and things like that with photographers as well. And you know that the likes of me have left the babies absolutely touched and still inhabit and everything. So if I see people I then recommend and I've been doing some work at Paramount and so forth like that. So I will sharing people's work and hopefully you know, starting I think these days is that people don't work in offices anymore. So it's hard. We're not you know, we used to say when all the teams in come see us and you can share the whole team in the team. So it's it's difficult. It's a lot more digital, that kind of thing these days.

Emma Alexander:

And it can be really hard. Like I said, getting getting commission. What advice do you have for creators who want to get the work in front of the dream client? So it was about emailing was about, you know, putting on a newsletter, we'll have your email address, but how do you get those meetings, especially if we're not all back in the office nowadays? How do you actually get your work to really resonate? How do you like to be approached?

Jason Baron:

Email email is fine and often did come from a recommendation. So if you can, if you can nozzle up to someone who can then choose networks, that's everyone, you know, Instagrams a useful thing. LinkedIn is becoming more more useful for creatives. It used to be a bit dry and corporate ice thing but literally everyone's on there now. And maybe that's maybe that's the way now with hybrid working in London offices. It has to be kind of it has to be provided by the social channels and all that fun stuff.

Emma Alexander:

Visibility. what was that personal brand PR

Jason Baron:

there are there's more kind of portals. There's a thing called the found found artists you know about found a special thing I'm looking at I've been asked to be involved in photo politics as well. Now they do charge you to be on these portals. But they do deals. And a lot of photographers are going on these boards. Not a lot of clients are looking at these, looking at these things, especially so. So they're both American but they are expanding in Europe. So they want more London photographers on these on these platforms. And you can you basically have a presence on these sites that people were

Emma Alexander:

perfect. If you spend an hour with someone who would you choose.

Jason Baron:

In terms of looking at my work or

Emma Alexander:

anything chatting, or talking to somebody

Jason Baron:

I'm lucky I'm lucky that the two most interesting photographers that I thought were going to talk to I've talked to so Martin I've seen loads and the dark Canada. I met when I just suddenly he was getting a lifetime achievement awards. And we ended up doing a flipping talk together and I got major impostor syndrome standing there just going What the hell is going on. We've got major losses and we said, you have I've got a lifetime achievement. I've got major impostor syndrome. My ultimate hero, obviously, he's not a well known. So Tom Waits, who asked for Roger Federer. I play tennis. God. Yeah.

Emma Alexander:

Why? Why have you decided?

Jason Baron:

Well, I saw that sort of, so I got to the end of my BBC career. And it was, it was it was a time when I've done this amazing thing and webinars apart. I've done the Sony judging, I put on an exhibition for teams work, maintain record. He's still a BBC curator, this exhibition of the team's work and it was it was wonderful to show the team's work of the last few years. It felt like a little bit of a swan song for me. It's like maybe it's time to go in at the same time a photographer came up to me at a Christmas party. And he said, he bought he just came over bought me a pint of Guinness. And I said, Well, you don't I said, You are as you're the one who's responsible for me still taking pictures. And I'm like, wow. They said, Yeah, I was. I was in a really hard place really bad place. He told me through my work and said I have merit. You gave me that commission six years ago and here I am still doing it. And that was almost you know, you asked me, you asked me my highlight of my career, that moment is almost the highlight of my career because it was like, oh my god, that's amazing. And he was just so appreciative of me, trying to help him you know, and giving him giving him a lift. And so ever since I left the party, I've done loads of kind of mentoring and portfolio reviews and it's just so rewarding. It's just brilliant. And I learned as much as the person I'm talking to and lovely symbiotic relationship that happens when when two people are kind of talking about creativity and trying to think of ways of expanding that with that person. It's, it's brilliant, and I love it. So you know, so if that can happen through Wisern that system is super

Emma Alexander:

perfect. Guys, you can obviously find Jason on Wisern. He's available for one on one sessions on positioning or in person development. And also the course of portfolio reviews. We've got a brand new three part process deep dive portfolio review format, designed to help you craft a folio that speaks directly to clients that you want to work for. So go and check that out. And thank you for staying to the end. You can take 10% of any of Jason's Wisern sessions using the code Jason 10 up in the chat box now that's what I'm proposing I was I headed towards an officer ticketing credibility. I'm gonna have a look at some questions, but you're gonna get the thing early.

Jason Baron:

Because you did hear Pastel de Nata. I have a complete love of Portugal, which I'm getting from the Iberian Peninsula. So there you are, Portugal file

Emma Alexander:

and how important recognisable brands how important I reckon to do I think something is how important do they matter in your portfolio?

Jason Baron:

I'm going to say, I'm gonna say no, they don't matter. But it can be if you're very if you're if you're coming across as very green in the photography world, it can be nice to have something that is recognisable, because it means that someone with quite a lot of money has taken a punt on you. You've done the work well. But that's not to say, you know, I talked about I talked about Polly's portfolio of children. So it depends, it sort of depends on what you're wanting to take pictures of as well. I think

Emma Alexander:

that makes sense. And things ask the dreaded acetate sleeves in a portfolio or not?

Jason Baron:

Oh, it's hard, isn't it? I know it's terrible. Could you spend a fortune getting lovely prints and working with a printer? I will only work with a printer and then you got sequins and sleeves. It's what it's however you're going to hold it and again it's what we said if the work will shine through even through shiny acetate. That's what I would say.

Emma Alexander:

And you'll use this didn't catch the name for the platforms where we could sign up to get our work seen Can you say

Jason Baron:

so? Is the round agency and the other one is photo politic. Perfect. And if you go on there, you'll see pretty hefty hefty photographers on there. I think definitely photo politics. Not everyone would be on it. You have to be sort of you have to be quite, quite lofty and pretty, pretty good. It's quite commercial. I'm talking to the guy at the minute it's I feel it's a little bit too American and you'll see what I mean when you go on there. Okay, it's a little bit. It's not Getty ish, but it's a little bit. Yeah, a little bit American. I'm trying to you know, I mean,

Emma Alexander:

Jason, thank you so much for taking time today to share it with us. There was loads and loads of information and I think hopefully everyone's taken as much away as I have guys. If you have any feedback, please let us know. It's always really nice to know what you have taken away from these events.

You can follow Jason on Instagram @Jason Baron Photo, or connect with him on LinkedIn as well. While you're on Instagram, do spread a bit of love, and give us a follow too. Thank you so much for joining us today and I will see you soon.

END.

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