The benefits of strategy and personal brand

Short on time, here are the juicy bits:

• Introducing Tom

  • How Tom got started in his career.

  • Hit big breakthrough moment.

  • The joys of being published.

• The value of shooting editorial for print magazines.

  • Shooting editorial is not without its foibles.

  • Editorial is food for the soul.

  • How his relationship with MOJO magazine began.

  • Nurturing relationships is the key to success.

  • The importance of visibility.

• Editing your portfolio.

  • What makes a portfolio cut through the noise in a competitive market..

  • The importance of disrupting the flow of a book.

  • Print portfolio or iPad?

  • The split between commissioned work and personal work.

• Using awards as part of your strategy.

  • Being selected for the Taylor Wessing exhibition.

  • The logistics of entering into photo awards.

  • Working with celebrities.

  • How it felt to win the Sony World Open award.

  • The challenge of entering photography competitions.

• The power of ambassadorships and awards.

  • What is an ambassadorship and what does it entail?

  • Working as an ambassador for Sony.

  • Previous ambassadorship with Hasselblad.

• How to connect with your subject in a short amount of time.

  • Working with celebrities on a limited time is tough.

  • The first cover for level magazine.

  • Talent is not a friend, just deliver on the brief.

  • Black and white vs colour photography.

• Quick fire questions.

  • Founding Creative Corners, a charity donating photo books and camera kit to schools .

  • My favourite photo that I have shot..

  • If I could spent an hour with one person, I’d like to meet Rick Rubin again.

  • Why Tom has joined Wisern - work with him on portfolio reviews and 1-to-1 power hours.

Full transcript

Emma Alexander 00:04

We're really really really excited to have Tom with us today to share his insights on his illustrious 20 odd-year career. So Tom has obviously shot for the likes of Adidas, Huawei, you've been a Sony and Hasselblad ambassador, your work has graced the covers of magazines like GQ and MOJO magazines. And we are very privileged to have you here today to talk about your insights, your growth strategies. And you know how you got those key commissions and I really want to talk about about how personal work was in that as well. But before we kick off, can you give me a really brief intro for people who don't perhaps know you as to who you are and what you do?

Tom Oldham 08:18

Yeah. That was a very nice introduction. Hello, everyone. I've been quite lucky in my room in that it hasn't been very linear at all, I would say I think like most of us, we started photographing our passion first and I've always been really into music. So I was documenting the rave scene which was quite new at the time. And that became music editorial and really putting those shots into sort of dance music as dance jobs music publications is that whole scene was exploding and then that evolved into Yeah, shooting party shooting club night shooting for magazines, then into branded events, I suppose through that because there's a lot of sponsors in music and then sort of meandering through into commercial work through off the back of that and sort of transitioning into portraits from there really, so I've always been into people and great big colourful activity, I suppose.

Emma Alexander 09:17

Would you say was your your big break, that big breakthrough moment for you?

Tom Oldham 09:22

Definitely a great question. A breakthrough moment for me was I got published in the coolest magazine at the time, which was this thing called sleaze nation and it just was was very Shoreditch. Very Hoxton. And we the only way I knew if I'd been published was going down to WH Smith magazine shop and seeing if my picture was in the magazine, and I just had this explosive moment where it was a very comical image of two naked men in the sea, who would just burst out of the ZAP club and then run straight into the sea and brighten and I just had my camera with me at three in the morning and I've got a photo of them and opening that page and seeing my picture just is a beautiful picture but just was was really igniting Chris I can just see is just put in the chat about level magazine which was something me and a friend started from Plymouth and transition to Brighton in that so that that kind of editorial thing enabled me to move on really significantly move on. So it's been a very passionate love affair with being published and the printed page. Really. Do you think that continues today?

Emma Alexander 10:47

Do you think that editorial has given you the visibility that you need it to be seen by other people?

Tom Oldham 10:51

Yeah, yeah. So shooting editorial is not without its foibles, you know, it's quite hard to achieve and are to keep maintain. And you know, lots of photographers have been doing it as long as I have seen a lot of magazines come and go you know, but you know, was it Richard Avedon, who said if you want to be a famous photographer photographed famous people, and it's been it's been a really useful conduit and may have misquoted please forgive me. But it's been a really useful mechanism and we'd love by and large we own editorial so we're bringing our own ideas to that. And it's a great showcase, you know, and there's but on the flip side, there's been many, many times when hover, I photograph has landed, and you sit back and you look at your phone and you wait for it to ring and it doesn't so, you know, today’ news is tomorrow's fish wrappers and, you know,

Emma Alexander 11:52

I really, really love it. So I think there's a feeling and people tend to say: there's no money in editorial. They kind of write it off - there's no money in editorial, got to go in commercial and is that true? And do you? It is, what part does editorial play in your kind of your overarching strategy then?

Tom Oldham 12:13

Because we don't really do advertising? Because I don't personally advertise that I'm a portrait photographer. I consider editorial to be my own marketing, so that’s why. Nobody shoots editorial to make profit at all, let's let's just put that out there.

Emma Alexander 12:32

Why do you shoot it? What does it give you?

Tom Oldham 12:35

Because I absolutely love it, it is food for my soul, you know, and I want to know what Liam Gallagher's like, I want to know what he's like in person. So I say yes to that because I have a curiosity be cordial curiosity about people. And editorial has this tremendous ability to put you in the room and form your own opinions. And then, you know, we the editing process and putting those pictures out and seeing them in print. And I you know, I like being on the tube and seeing people looking at my pictures, you know, and that's that's a really amazing feeling. Yeah, and that's the best putting that's the justification for the whole thing but yeah, I It doesn't have to be high profile people. I just, there's something about print that I think we still consider that of worth, don't we? Yeah, you know,

Emma Alexander 13:28

so beautiful and tangible that you can hold in your hand, that tactile quality. Yeah, I feel that. When I think about your work, I think about your relationship with MOJO quite a bit. I mean, obviously, the image we'll come on to which you won The Sony World Open award with was, of course, a MOJO commission. How did you first get that relationship and then, how have you nurtured that over the years? How long have you been shooting with them for?

Tom Oldham 14:01

Yeah, a really long time! Yeah. Probably over 10 years now. Definitely over 10 years, I'm sure. And MOJO is, for those who don't know, it's just a benchmark music, magazine of note and of weight, right. So when artists, you know, the artists thing that happens with editorial is, you know, I've got an album to promote, we would like to feature you, we'd like to do a photo shoot, who's going to do the photo shoot, and it's mapped out in that way. And so Mojo, its sales figures, because everyone's subscribers, they're very, very consistent. So it's big, really, really, really proud to shoot for them because I hold them in very high esteem. And consequently, I really value that relationship. So every Mojo commission that comes in is treated afresh and we tried to bring everything we can to it. I've had some astonishing opportunities with icons of music through it, and it came about like most good things in the pub. The designer, Mojo I had worked with previously on the fly magazine before the fly magazine. It was ministry magazine for the Ministry of Sound, the dance music thing I was saying about and but Russell Moorcroft, his name is proudly Name Check him has just you know, we were he was like, come down to the pub, the Mojo lot of going to be there. You should meet them. And Russell just said you should be you should be using him to shoot your stuff. And they were like, okay, it'd be got a portfolio and I was like, Yeah, I actually by pure coincidence, I happen to have it with me and he liked it. Yeah, great. Okay, cool. And it was as laid back as that, but because the trust was in place and the relationship was established, and that tracks back all the way back to very early days. Of being good, working hard and delivering. And, you know, that there's, there are very few shortcuts to that. I think, and I don't consider myself sort of especially privileged to have done it. It's just hard work. That's got me there. Yeah, it wasn't luck. Or you don't chance these things you know,

Emma Alexander 16:19

M grandfather used to say: there's no such thing as luck. I know that’s a bit controversial, but I think we do, we orchestrate these opportunities through either directly or indirectly, but by nurturing those relationships, it opens the door for those things to kind of unfold.

Tom Oldham 16:40

Someone just commented in the chat box that ‘editorial is your shop window’, and I completely agree. I think it's very effective. Yeah. So I do believe also, you're asking quite a lot for somebody to see your picture in a magazine and act on it. It's how you activate those opportunities. I think that really make them work for you.

Emma Alexander 17:00

But going back to that idea of strategy, there's that marketing rule from the 1930s about the Rule of Seven - you have to see something seven times before you buy it, which I think now has gone on to be about 16! I think, for me, editorial is part of that, you know, it's your visibility. If you open magazine, you're there. You go online, you're there. You listen to a podcast, and you're there. It's like, ‘oh!’ It sort of reinforces this person's, you know, stance or what have you. Obviously, now you are so mega famous, do you still need to pitch for work? Do you still need to be doing outreach with clients or is it all like, just come to me?

Tom Oldham 17:41

Unbelievably, there's an enormous amount of people that have never heard of me! So yes, I do have to pitch and I'm much prefer working with people who I know of course and to that trust is in place but that's not universal. You know, so when we do pitch we work really hard to be competitive and but also to stand our ground and to maintain the standards that we need to produce the work. But yeah, same as everyone if you want to be out there, you've got to compete. And that's tough. So it'd be nice with Wisern to be having a few of those conversations, maybe in helping people with their pitching process. Yeah, I enjoy that.

Emma Alexander 18:32

Going into agencies and doing go-sees and meeting with art directors and art buyers. That kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker 18:39

Less so, I'd much prefer genuinely I'd much prefer the relationship route. Yeah. And putting yourself out there in the best possible way. Because I do think you've got to be devastatingly good if you're unknown. For somebody to look up and go, i i Your work is so amazing. I need you and it has to be very fresh, and but it is doable and it is achievable. And we do see photographers that you go that just that stop you and you just go wow so you know, it'll be really interesting. And I think that's carefully curated and carefully worked up. And again, I'm, I really hope we meet some of them. I want to say I really want to see that work I do.

Emma Alexander 19:28

So if you will go back that if you were at the start of your career then now I do think this is a it's a really saturated through the wrong web. It's a very, very competitive market photography is very, very difficult to get cut through. You know, one what's going to make people stand out. Obviously, you're not a commissioner, I know you're not coming at this from an art buyer or a picture editors point of view, but in your experience what's going to make you stand out what makes a folio really cut through the noise

Tom Oldham 19:57

It’s focus. Its focus, it's trusting yourself. And I see this so often where people repeat work and almost as though I know I don't know, so I'll let you decide what you prefer. And it's like it's got to be your voice and your tone and your focus. And I think it's so key to showing off who you are that that how hard you've gone in the most amazing advice I had from someone and it's really stayed with me was was this guy from Wieden and Kennedy said, Tom, I love your portfolio. I really love to work. I can see the Zig but where's the Zag? And just you said I can. I felt like I knew what was coming next. And I want I want every now and again to be slapped in the face with a with a new like oh, wow, I wasn't expecting that. Yeah. And I think that's what I really encourage people to do. It's like, okay, I think I know. All right, okay. And, you know, because there's this big emphasis on it having flow and, you know, I don't actually believe that I'd rather far rather it was confusing the boring that's a key really key thing with me. I'd audience would rather be confused and bored. So let's change that up and give it energy and dynamic.

Emma Alexander 21:13

That's great. That's really really interesting. Actually. On the portfolio, do you have a printed book or do you go in with the iPad now? What's your stance on that?

Tom Oldham 21:21

Oh god, no, you'll never get me with an iPad. No. That's that's just such a brilliant way of blending in with everyone else. My my portfolio is a loose it's a box with loose prints. And I go in I take them all out and spread them out along on the table so that people can pick up the Print and Go there are only nine quit, you know, for a print. It's like less than that. You know that? And anyway, they'll pick them up go with this and go over there. So So here's the story with that and that's where the sales come in. You know? And then if they really liked that picture, I'd be like, I'll sign the back of it. I've got a Sharpie, he go keep the print, you know, and that's the greatest calling card and then just, you know, not being too controlling, not being too precious with keeping it friendly and warm, and I hate that super clinical. You know, this is controversial, but you know, there was for a while a portfolio maker that and everyone was using this portfolio maker, therefore making everyone's portfolio very samey. So everyone going very, very polished and that direction. You'll find me with like a paper box with some loose prints. Because I'm confident about what I've got and I don't need to over present it. So yeah, I do have a printable print folio. And it's tethered. Sorry, tailored to whoever we're off to see Yeah. And there'll be they might be on different papers, different sizes. And just all of the all of them are little stories, and I can't wait to tell you, you know, and being confident and having that self belief, you know, is really important in that moment.

Emma Alexander 23:08

I think as you remember, Jason Baron said something similar when he was at the BBC, a lady came in with a book of her kids, like actually like a little printed book, but of her children, just like I haven't got a portfolio but I've got this and he was like, you know, just the story and the sentiment was so much more impactful than just what Yeah, what

Tom Oldham 23:27

do you remember, you know,

Emma Alexander 23:28

yeah, what do you remember? So personal work. Do you have? What do you think the split is of an average? Obviously you tailor I'm glad you said that for each meeting. But what I think the split is in your in your book of commissioned work versus personal work

Tom Oldham 23:45

or it really does. It really does vary on who we're going to see. So if you're going to see a broadcast or something like that, it would just be like, almost endless, famous faces really, just to really show them that you can confidently cope with being in the presence of very famous people. I think some people just want that reassurance, but it could easily be 6040 60% personal work. We're just projects. Here's a nice project I did. Here's a few famous people. Here's another project and but ensuring that there is the tonally, they're coming from, you know a similar feeling, I suppose. But that will vary very much on who we're going to see. Okay.

Emma Alexander 24:28

I actually want to touch on you mentioned with it with projects and stuff. I know you've done long running. So you have a long running relationship with Gilbert and George, and actually photographed their new building. And tell me about this How How did you get that commission because I know they didn't commission you. You went to them and said, I want to photograph your building and they went alright. Don't Don't mess it up was

Tom Oldham 24:51

commissioned in 2015 of our commission. From Time Out New York in 2015. So Gilbert and George, if you don't know are very established. English artists. They're two people but one artist. They basically invented East London. So cheap warehousing industrial units and spaces. Were in the I think early 70s. They came in and took over an area where they could work and there were no other artists nobody doing that. And that is why he standard is very much connected with I think art and creativity I suppose. So it was the commission I didn't know I'd been waiting for to come and shoot their portraits and we got the minor inconvenience out away out of the way which was the brief and then just really dug into getting the portraits that we wanted. And I was like, I'm not letting go this and that that portrait from that commission got into the Taylor Wessing in 2015. So that kind of further enhanced the relationship and I went down to see them absolutely terrified. With a print of it saying I've been accepted into the Taylor West thing they want to use it as a private view invite. They want to sell postcards of it in the shop. And it was and I needed their permission and I was genuinely I was so terrified that they could say no. And of course they were delightful and so appreciative and really saw my probably anxiety about it. And then of course Tom fantastic, wonderful. Well done. Congratulations of course do whatever you need whatever you need. And they're lovely like that. And I was like I'm not like go this one so I would keep in touch and we'd go and they're so generous. So take take me for lunch and coffee and stuff. And then when they showed me they the what they were planning to do with the gallery they had like a mock up of it. I said can I document the process please? And we use portraits as the sort of anchor point to show the progress stages with the building. All of it's on my website and genuinely, really emotional, really lovely to do always very quick shoots but then they were very appreciative and obliging with the process and the brief for it from George was you know, I said Can I can I do this with you? And they say do whatever you want, just get it right. And and I was like, no pressure. Yeah, that's a brief. Yeah, do whatever you want. Just get it right. Which is like, we trust you as the artist and tackle it however you want. But we are watching right now lovely. They are so lovely.

Emma Alexander 27:38

That's actually I wanted you touched on this actually and I wanted to ask you about this. Just about the logistics of entering things into a wars so I know that the copyright laws some magazines are trying to change this but won't veer into that. You know, they they have the commission but you own the copyright. And you know the black Francis the Sony AWARD WINNING PHOTO is a good a good example of this. When you enter when you enter things into awards, do you get permission from the magazine and all the subjects or do you just enter it hope for the best and then get permission afterwards? How have you worked that when you're working with celebrities? It's different when it's working picture of my mom is a bit of my dog. It's fine. How do you orchestrate that when you're working with very big celebrities and have you ever come up against anybody that's really someone who's blocked.

Tom Oldham 28:27

I've never had any resistance with it. But with both of those Gilbert George and with black Francis from the Pixies which Yeah, what was picked it was so they let you know it's been picked out of 300,000 images and you've won this whole category, which is an amazing thing in itself, but they said we're going to use it. It would be a courtesy to have the permission so I won't get that permission in advance. Because it's quite a lot of aggro. But if you go to them with I've won this thing. Could you okay with it. It would take an unkind person to say no, I think they'd have to dislike the picture. And and the work that I do is not confrontational. You know, it's very collaborative. So yeah, I don't think people should overly stress about that personally. Good stuff, and I could be terrible advice

Emma Alexander 29:24

towards the pictures of the Queen and be fine if you want to ask about the No, I want to ask about your, your process of when you heard that you had sorted out your process how it felt when you won the Sony Well, no, because obviously that's pretty incredible. Like to get that was it a phone call or email?

Tom Oldham 29:50

Um no, no, we had like a zoom. And they were filming it. And I was like, that's weird. Yeah. And they told me and because I run the professional category and the Sony awards in for portraits in 2018. I genuinely thought I had never shot anything that would be good enough for the open awards, because it's one picture and come with a story is one thing, but for one picture to cut through. And that was my sort of challenge with it and I really wanted to really wanted it actually really really wanted it and I bloody well got it and which was a tremendous surprise. It's because I've you have to be quite emotionally robust I think for competition world and have a real lot of belief in your work because I get rejected a lot and I you know, constantly into all the competitions you've heard of, and quite often don't get anywhere at all, you know, and but it doesn't stop me from trying because I believe in the work and that wonderful feeling that hopefully everybody here has have. Well I know I'm right. I don't expect everyone to know that I'm right. But it's nice to get that recognition and for them to see what you saw in that picture is very emotional and powerful and has done some great good for me, the competition world so I you know, there's a lot of criticism of it. But free competitions especially. I think everybody should be on that.

Emma Alexander 31:30

Yeah. Well, they're like you say 300,000 to one

Tom Oldham 31:35

Yeah, that's that's a that's a Yeah, a ratio as well. Just on a side note there being so few outlets for good quality work, really, that competitions I just think aren't authentic, established way of putting your project into a space where people are there to see it and appreciate it. So yeah,

Emma Alexander 31:59

I think there's there's something true there having been a judge. I yeah, I've done quite a few awards and I do the creative circle was every year just so much fun and the core the the final jury that like the jury room on the final one is a an intense place to be there's lots of like arguing it's very, very subjective. debaters are not arguing debating at times. But I think one of things you know that your work is getting in front of those people and that is really powerful. You don't want obviously it's not named you don't see names, but you know your work is being seen by people you hopefully respect in the industry. That That is incredible. And if you're using the big PR machine that the big the wheel of visibility after editorial your own channels, you know, hopefully they're going to put those two and two together and actually realised,

Tom Oldham 32:50

like I said earlier, it's the it's a mechanism that you have to employ. I think that I mean the Sony Awards has a astonishing levels of PR absolutely amazing and they are there to promote you and your work. And it's great like that. And you obviously you have to activate that in all your channels and really, really work it, you know, and that's a really key element, I think to an opportunity like that, that you've got to be ready to write go for it and it was a calling card to say you're the world blah blah, blah, you know, Sony world whatever or you know Taylor Wessing entrant wherever it might be is very useful as a as a foot in the door. I think

Emma Alexander 33:38

well, we've taken the question straight our mouth. Sony twice. Taylor Wessing RSA exhibition, yeah. How have you used these like, how have we actually allowed what what have they brought you and how have you used them in your own way, not just relying on the promotion in the marketing of the Sony organisation, but actually how have you taken that and in a PR perspective, and turned it into something beneficial for you?

Tom Oldham 34:06

Or just as kind of CV point or just as an email signature, that you're approaching people and say, I've just won this? Yeah, I'm really, really pleased about it. It got me thinking, Could I shoot some portraits with you? Great, you know, and there's an air of credibility that comes with that when the people I think positively respond to I've never had any negative responses to it, you know, I don't care or so what you know, it just works as a

Emma Alexander 34:39

validation isn't a weird way like it

Tom Oldham 34:41

is a validation. And but again, it's for you to flex you've got to empower it. You really have so but you know, we can talk about that with people I'm sure.

Emma Alexander 34:53

The other thing was talked about outside of awards was ambassadorships. This is not something I know massively about. You have been an ambassador for Hasselblad previously, but not anymore.

Tom Oldham 35:04

I was here Naughty Boy, you're

Emma Alexander 35:05

currently working with Sony. What is that? What is an ambassadorship? What does it mean and how do you think is crucial?

Tom Oldham 35:16

All relationships, all relationships, do you go to the photography show? You know, do you follow these people when they're doing kit demonstrations at Park cameras say for example, fixation, you know, you go down there you meet them, you talk to them. The common misconception with an ambassadorship is me knocking on the door at Sony saying you should use me because I'm amazing. And they're like everyone's amazing. You know, it's what people really misunderstand with this is that it's two way reciprocal, so I can buy my own cameras. You know, I'm not doing this for free cameras. It's it's a way of partnering with people that again, can push you out. It's marketing as well, but it's relationships. I really liked. them. We had an ambassador event last night in London where we all had a glorious dinner. I met all the other ambassadors and creators on the on the on the Sony on the Sony side, and it's a very solitary existence, isn't it? And actually, as an ambassador, you feel part of something. And it's, um, again to be worked by you if you if you need to, but like I'm really, really proud to be using what I think is currently the best camera out there. And that may be considered controversial. I hope not but it's easy promotion because of the lenses are amazing. The autofocus devastating you know that the quality of the raw file is that is a seven or five I'm using currently and lots of GM beautiful glass so it just, it just is harmonious. And that again, I repeat is a misconception with people that maybe would like Ambassador roles that they think it's right, you just have this truck deliver this enormous amount of gear and you sit back and go great. Thank you Yeah, it was really, really nice working with Hasselblad for quite a long time. But actually the technology moved on quite considerably from what I was using with them and it just made beautiful sense to be working on with Sony who are very dynamic and really support their artists and creators. And yeah, I'm really, really

Emma Alexander 37:41

well you're a Sony user beforehand, where you were so nice. They invited you to come and be able to

Tom Oldham 37:46

I want to I want to Sony in the 2018 Was he did professional category and they are really beautiful 50 mil and an A seven are three I think it was a one and they said you'll change systems pretty soon I was like a one and sure enough, you know, because I have I'd have the medium format kit and like a mirrorless DSLR kit, and that just like I just bundled that in a box and it's like gone and so I was using the system and really enjoying it and then and the relationship evolved it took a lot of time and we're very patient and we got over the line to do sign a contract and you make you sign an agreement of how what you'll do but it is to wait, what do

Emma Alexander 38:34

they expect from you? What do they ask you to do? What are the sort of things that they're in the contract, you can expect me how to

Unknown Speaker 38:39

turn up, turn up to things they expect your time and your professional commitment in terms of

Emma Alexander 38:50

Sony tattoos as John John cross out the house of loved ones.

Tom Oldham 38:54

Yeah. What are they asked me to do. So you know, an amount of like telling people how I created these pictures. That's easy, really nice thing to share. And, you know, most photographers are sort of partway geeks and I'm not that techie. We've got Tom Barnes for that. He's the most amazing

Emma Alexander 39:16

so you guys should find out the ring about the Sony because he's used every camera system known to humanity.

Tom Oldham 39:21

He knows the way around the camera system. Yes, he knows the menus. I wish I really admire Yeah, definitely. So I don't know if that answered that. But you can we can we can speak further about that. Maybe? Yeah, people really curious about that. I do feel as though I know the lay of the land with it.

Emma Alexander 39:41

And I'm gonna get back to something else that I got to ask you before you mentioned when you shot Gilbert and George you got the you know, you got the you got the brief other way and then you got down to the you know, the good fun stuff. So it might be my understanding of kind of when you're shooting celebrities quite often that can be you know, you've got three and a half minutes, especially if they're doing some sort of promotional tour. They're on the press junket circuit, you've got a hotel room somewhere you have to do the standing, you have assistants like me to you know, model and then they come in and you have no time and then other times I'm sure you have this wonderful opportunity to say right that that's you know, that's the brief. That's what they want the Henschel let's do something else. How open do you find people I like how open do you find people are to collaborating on something more exciting? And I guess my main question is how do you how do you get a connection with someone when don't have much time? Like how do you walk into a room and just get

Tom Oldham 40:43

best? That's an amazing question. Really is well done. Well done. Like number one, it's transactional. So they are in the room as are you to achieve a mutual goal and we're not those stepping people. There's we are we've been invited. Number one that doesn't mean anything necessarily creative creatively. So Jane bounds said, quote, rates are given and not taken during bounded 50 years of portraits for the observer, and I fully, fully commit to that and parking the three and a half minutes thing for a moment. It's about creating a harmonious atmosphere where people want to give you the portrait you're asking for us but really clear communication pure focus, knowing who they are and what they are what they've done before. Google limits the hell out of these people, you know, so that your idea isn't overlapping with somebody else's. I really, really try to take my time if there is time. Tea Coffee Music, you know, if there isn't a time if they're having some grooming going, talk to them and tell them your objective objective, show them the poses, show them the mood board in advance, so when they step on, that they'll they'll, they'll they're ready to give you what they want. If they've got no time. I work with some amazing teams of people that are as committed to creating beautiful pictures as I am and that is a whole discussion that we need to have about how you work with people and

Emma Alexander 42:36

do you meet so do you need a crew or do you mean what is your team or the client my

Tom Oldham 42:39

team? My team? Yeah, yeah. So it's, I don't even know if I can call them my team. I suppose as the photographer, I don't own them. They just come with me. And I'm really grateful that they do because quite often if I'm hidden behind the camera, it's them that's got a jump in so you just show him that thing. So show him the post and it'll be assistants that are jumping in so we really want to achieve it like this and shout out James Hall who you know is has been incredible and very hands on dear fellow, you know and an incredible photographer in its own right but as has helped me lots with my own work. So yeah, but clear communication, clear focus objectives. You know, I had 14 seconds with Richard Branson wants to shoot a really nice portrayed, and we're three frames and I got it because we were ready, you know. So you know you don't get to be a multi billionaire by wasting your time doing photo shoots your whole life. That's for sure.

Emma Alexander 43:40

I was thinking about when people are on that press, perhaps more with thinking about actors and what they have to go through. But musicians you know the same when you're literally going when you got a movie coming out. You're literally being moved from one hotel room to the other New York time. This is this is the time and they're tired, and they don't want to be there. And everyone's asking the same questions. And actually, that's a really good point. You mentioned not doing what people did before. I remember having by them saying something about when he did No Country for Old Men, and they were like Oh, can you just hold this site air compressed? He was like, No, I'm not standing there in the pose with this, you know, brutal. If you haven't seen the movie, it's essentially a weapon. You know, he's I'm not doing it. That is not what I'm doing. Think of something better. You know? Think think harder. Think more creative than that. It can't just be leisurely lazy kind of experience. So yeah, I think research is really, really good point there. So have you ever had any experiences where people have come in and said, I'm not doing this? Let's get over and done with and you've cut like blood out of a stone hasn't it? The awful experiences that you are having to share you don't have to name people

Tom Oldham 44:52

make me feel a bit sick then. Yeah, I have actually one in the chat though. Chris from level magazine that I shot the very first cover for this brand new magazine and excited excitedly drove to London was shooting it in a hotel. And I got there with my lighting kit went to plug it in and the hotel had round pin plugs for some reason probably to avoid books like me turning up with plug in mounting this whole suite that we were in only had round pin plugs and obviously we had traditional so I couldn't use the lighting. And it was February it cold and that what there was was a window kind of about the size of this screen probably. And the light was fading. But Ilford the week before it brought out 3200, ISO black and white film in medium format, and I brought a Hasselblad with me. I think it was and start some portraits in daylight. That just about works but we shot the band. You know the end we had an hour there was an interview I had 15 minutes then we shot the band and I had three minutes with the singer who would plan to have on the on the cover. I decided to kind of waste one of those minutes by saying you know, how are you doing? Are you looking forward to this and that and she just went like Look, can we just get on with this? I was like yes, yes, we can. Yes, we can get on with this yet. And and honestly from that day on, I was like the talent is not your friend. You are not there to try and ingratiate yourself actually. Everyone's there to do a job. Just do the job deliver on the brief. And, you know, be professional man. And if something lovely friendship wise happens then wonderful but and be open to that. But actually clear focus is really, really key because that's scorching embarrassment that I suffered that day, and supremum levels of not unprofessionalism, just really actually what it was it's friendliness. But yeah, it was my best right? Yeah. It was the first step of approach shot and I learned that day.

Emma Alexander 47:16

On the on the black and white thing talking about the Ilford film. When I think of your work, you do shoot a lot of black and white, how open our clients to that is that something you've kind of taken on as your style going? Forward? Do you pitch supplies that I'm going to shoot that in black and white or do you do it all in colour and do a cheeky Mano afterwards

Tom Oldham 47:35

so everything shot raw in colour? Always but some things are very determined Lee designed to be black and white. I think very much in the way they're lit and posed and the background etc. It just lends itself the sort of shadows. Everything about a composition will lend itself to that out and but in terms of clients, they will come with a predetermined brief very commonly, I did a really amazing shoe. Possibly like the nicest most mega one I've done, could be with added as a man united where we shot Ronaldo and a load of the players and the guys that homeground the agency came to me and you know, we got to a place where we were like our little like, can we put on the most famous face in the world? Because he's the most followed person on Instagram and I was like, can we just be brave and really go for it and everybody brand included? Everyone was really up for it. And Peter Savile was the designer with the apparel and he did all that New Order and Joy Division design. And these are really old references for all the young people in here so I apologise in advance, but it just was, again the harmony of it and it was being really, really brave. And it made for an image I'm so proud of because it was bold, you know? And it was so much better than just here's a nice colour portrait of Ronaldo. Yeah. So there's a space for it. And I think having an expertise in that field is really applicable because it's always cool. But that's not to say just putting any picture into black and white is cool because it's got to be done with design.

Emma Alexander 49:24

What's your favourite pizza shop? Sure, absolutely favourite.

Tom Oldham 49:33

My favourite picture I've ever shot. This is the cheesiest answer but it's the holiday snap. Actually of my pregnant wife holding up my in silhouette holding up my son my three year old on a beach and a nice sunset. And that will always forever mean more to me than anything I've ever been paid to do. I really love the project I did at the Palm Tree Pub the last of the crooners which had sort of 15 years of investment in it timewise to get to a stage where I could have that level of access. And that project did really, really well for me because it really came from a place of love. And it's no coincidence that it was really successful in lots of ways and it's 500 yards from my house really, you know, and how projects don't have to be international and this enormous sort of expenditure and impact and you really put loads of pressure onto it because of your it's taking all this time and money that lasted the crooners project while I had been there for a long time. Going there for a long time to this pub was only a day and a half to chew you know, so it was wasn't a significant commitment timewise you know,

Emma Alexander 50:53

that leads you really nicely on to another personal project, which I know you will probably want to talk about which is creative corners. Don't don't we should do a little flunking Thank you people who don't know about creative corners can you tell us what it is and why it's important?

Tom Oldham 51:08

Okay, so I have a relationship with some art teachers typography teachers in schools, state schools in the UK and I went to one down in Dorset and I know the art teacher there quite well in this particular school and he told me that they have one parent at five per student per year to spend on art supplies. And that really got me so I came home and empty loads of books off my shelves because they don't have money. For 40 pound books, right? And then but before I sent them off, I sort of put a few messages out and said Is anybody anybody else want to contribute books, that they are just kind of jewellery for their shelves, that they're just adorning their shelves and you look at them once and love them? But don't you know? And people came through in quite a big way. So we had some amazing photographers loads and loads of photographers came around to my house or hosted stuff or I'd meet them at train stations get these very big bags of books. And it really started taking over my house. We then it rolled out so then BJP magazine were amazing. They get every review book and I don't really know what to do with them so I got a massive trolley load from them the photographer's gallery. Our man box the mini press tenta amazing book publishers have been so generous and now I take them to school Sony cameras Sony Alpha like donated loads and loads of cameras and new brand new box cameras to donate to schools and one of the schools I went to Devon that this is the best thing that's happened to us in five years. And all it was was me passing on people's donations of books and camera care and it just I said it's called Creative corners. collecting books

Emma Alexander 53:06

today is it's still going okay I want your books. To do do this is the forum for that.

Tom Oldham 53:14

Do do chime in if you can, and it is that's like personal work and I get an enormous amount of joy from it. They these teachers are at a time when you know teenage angst and like self image is falling through the floor. I just think to deny people the resources for art and communication and photography and media and all of those things. I just think it daft to be honest that we're starving people with that. So I feel like I'm doing my bit there. So if you want to do your bit you're very welcome to jump on

Emma Alexander 53:53

in what's the website? How can people find it?

Tom Oldham 53:57

It's good. Thank God you're here. Creative canvas.uk Great borders.uk It's got the full story and there's a contact form on there where you can.uk not.co

Emma Alexander 54:05

UK but dot you know great creative corners,

Tom Oldham 54:09

all one word.uk

Emma Alexander 54:12

And just wrapping up here there's a couple of quick questions I always asked him one is if you could, if you could spend an hour with somebody, who would you choose?

Tom Oldham 54:21

I would remain Gordon says come. just messaged about books there and keep your main contributor who would I meet again? I would love this is an original but I would love another hour with Rick Rubin. I love him so much. And he was so energised to be around and he's super super Zen and chill but he's one of those people that really listens to your answers when you talk he's got our photographers portrait photographers skill of locking into people and their motivator motivating motivating factors. I think that's how he works it with music production because he's not a technical but he's also the most successful music producer alive today. So he he's amazing and incredible and the soundtrack decades of the music I listen to so that shoot him for Mojo was a moment and I would happily repeat it. Yeah, so that'd be nice. And of

Emma Alexander 55:26

course, people can you know if you want to have a chat with Tom but anything we have spoken about today or something that we haven't Tom has now joined us on Wisern Yeah, why? Why have you done to summarise

Tom Oldham 55:39

Okay, number one, you have to pay to do it, and I get some of the money about that, please. But aside from that lots of people DM me and I fire out those DMS you know, and I do my absolute best to satisfy people's problems and questions, whatever it might be, but it's crap. It's not it's never full enough. It's never good enough and actually, I really want to do this to give people a proper full hour of focus and attention where we can really dig into it. And I don't think the money is rude for the potential transformation that could occur in that hour. And I really believe in that. So it's not entirely altruistic, of course, but I do believe there's a huge amount more that we can give in that time. So yeah, I want to, I want you to I want to lie down in the road. And you steamroller me with, like plundering as much information as you can get out of me, because if you've got a problem, I've probably experienced it over time. So I look forward to bringing that experience to life with people's needs, you know?

Emma Alexander 57:05

Absolutely. I love that and that's really one of the reasons we were so keen to get yours I think you have you have so much to share. Tom is gonna be doing portfolio reviews. One to one asked me I think power hours and strategy review so you can bring all of those to him. Like I say if there's anything we have not touched on today, you'd like to speak to him about, head over to wisern.com and you can you can book a slot with Tom, thank you so much for sharing so much today. It was absolutely brilliant. To reflect with you. I thought we've only scratched the surface.

Tom Oldham 57:38

This could be longer but I do it all again. I'm very grateful to everyone in the chat. and sorry if we haven't gotten to your thing, but lots of questions

Emma Alexander 57:46

we have not covered off today but I'm tight on time. And thank you so much for joining me. everybody else here. thank you for all of your enthusiastic COURAGING chat. and Tom thank you so much for all your time stay guys, it's been a joy. Thank you. Take care. We'll see you really soon. Bye bye. Bye. Record. Yeah, hi. You are magnificent.